GCJ ------ file type not supported by system

[Andrew Haley]

I don't have an answer for you. Maybe someone on the Classpath list does.

But I have to tell you that Classpath is not being actively developed,
so your problem is unlikely to be fixed. You'll have to debug it
yourself or find someone to debug it. Sorry.

Andrew.

[Mario Torre]

java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: file type not supported by system
at javax.sound.sampled.AudioSystem.write(Unknown Source)
at com.all.smws.speech. .genSliceFeat(Unknown Source)
at com.all.smws.speech.SpeechFilter.getAnnotations(Unknown Source)
at com.all.sndsep.segmentation.Segmentor.getNewAnnotations(Unknown
Source)
at com.all.sndsep.segmentation.Segmentor.getNewAnnotations(Unknown
Source)
at com.all.sndsep.segmentation.Segmentor.getNewAnnotations(Unknown
Source)
at com.all.sndsep.segmentation.Segmentor.getAllAnnotations(Unknown
Source)
at com.all.smws.speech.SpeechFilter.getSmwsAnnotations(Unknown
Source)
at com.all.smws.speech.SMWS.getSpeech(Unknown Source)
at com.all.onins.oi.stream.OnlineInputStream.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

Just throwing a possible hint to the problem.

The Java Sound API works with system providers. By the look of if, the
provider used under the hood is some SpeechFilter thing, which I don't
think is part of either classpath or gcj.

Try checking the default providers in

META-INF/services/javax.sound.sampled.spi.AudioFileWriter

Just my two cents, but I won't have time to look it further if this
doesn't work...

Cheers,
Mario

[Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia]

That is a pity.

I think GNU Classpath is a very good choice for embedded systems with
limited flash/RAM (especially the latter).

Perhaps it is time to look for adopters to take care of the project?
It would be really bad to let it just die.

Guillermo

Post by Andrew Haley
I don't have an answer for you. Maybe someone on the Classpath list does.
But I have to tell you that Classpath is not being actively developed,
so your problem is unlikely to be fixed. You'll have to debug it
yourself or find someone to debug it. Sorry.
Andrew.

[Mario Torre]

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
That is a pity.
I think GNU Classpath is a very good choice for embedded systems with
limited flash/RAM (especially the latter).
Perhaps it is time to look for adopters to take care of the project?
It would be really bad to let it just die.
Guillermo

Hi Guillermo,

It's free software, anyone can step in :)

Cheers,
Mario

[Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia]

Hi Mario,

Yes I know that anyone can work on GNU Classpath. But as in any OSS
project, a new project maintainer taking over "ownership" (in the OSS
sense of the word) would need to have the approval and the support of
the current maintainers.

Guillermo

Post by Mario Torre

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
That is a pity.
I think GNU Classpath is a very good choice for embedded systems with
limited flash/RAM (especially the latter).
Perhaps it is time to look for adopters to take care of the project?
It would be really bad to let it just die.
Guillermo

Hi Guillermo,
It's free software, anyone can step in :)
Cheers,
Mario

[Andrew Haley]

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
Yes I know that anyone can work on GNU Classpath. But as in any OSS
project, a new project maintainer taking over "ownership" (in the OSS
sense of the word) would need to have the approval and the support of
the current maintainers.

That would not be a problem. But really, there's no need to own
the project: all patches are welcome.

Andrew.

[Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia]

Hi Andrew,

Post by Andrew Haley

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
Yes I know that anyone can work on GNU Classpath. But as in any OSS
project, a new project maintainer taking over "ownership" (in the OSS
sense of the word) would need to have the approval and the support of
the current maintainers.

That would not be a problem. But really, there's no need to own
the project: all patches are welcome.

Yes I am sure about this, but that is not my point. What I am saying
is that it would be very good for the project to be maintained by a
team who really wants to move things forward.

[Mario Torre]

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
Hi Andrew,

Post by Andrew Haley

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
Yes I know that anyone can work on GNU Classpath. But as in any OSS
project, a new project maintainer taking over "ownership" (in the OSS
sense of the word) would need to have the approval and the support of
the current maintainers.

That would not be a problem. But really, there's no need to own
the project: all patches are welcome.

Yes I am sure about this, but that is not my point. What I am saying
is that it would be very good for the project to be maintained by a
team who really wants to move things forward.

I understand what you mean, but the current maintainer has always
integrated patches and done releases, I think the problem is not the
lack of one maintainer willing to move forward, is lack of manpower to
do it.

As I said, anyone can step in, if patches start to flow (including bug
fixes) I'm sure they'll be integrated correctly and quickly.

If someone wants to take the project, the best thing to do is to start
contributing patches. After all, how can the maintainer know if someone
is seriously willing to take his role if there lack of a serious and
recent contribution flow?

Cheers,
Mario

[Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia]

Hi Mario,

2014-09-01 12:47 GMT+02:00 Mario Torre <***@redhat.com>:
[...]

Post by Mario Torre

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
Yes I am sure about this, but that is not my point. What I am saying
is that it would be very good for the project to be maintained by a
team who really wants to move things forward.

I understand what you mean, but the current maintainer has always
integrated patches and done releases, I think the problem is not the
lack of one maintainer willing to move forward, is lack of manpower to
do it.

Well,part of the job of the maintainer for an OSS project, perhaps the
most important one, is to attract and motivate other developers. This
is how the 'lack of manpower' problem is solved.

Just as an example: 0.99 is now over 2 years old, yet the official
Classpath site still lists 0.98 (2009) as "current". 0.99 is not even
listed in the downloads page. If the first thing a developer sees is
that the latest release is more than 5 years old, that does not
exactly help. I already mentioned this in this list, by the way
(https://www.mail-archive.com/***@gnu.org/msg15456.html).

Also I am not the first one to raise these concerns. Pekka Enberg
wrote an excellent post about "the future of GNU Classpath" in Dec
2010, and the situation has not changed a lot since then. I cannot
find the original post anymore (the blog was hosted at posterous
spaces, which is no longer available), but the thread in the ML
remains (http://www.spinics.net/lists/gnu-classpath/msg03027.html).
But you already know this of course, since you took part in that
conversation.

Post by Mario Torre
As I said, anyone can step in, if patches start to flow (including bug
fixes) I'm sure they'll be integrated correctly and quickly.
If someone wants to take the project, the best thing to do is to start
contributing patches. After all, how can the maintainer know if someone
is seriously willing to take his role if there lack of a serious and
recent contribution flow?

Of course if someone wanted to take on the project, then that would be
the process. I completely agree with you.

At the end what I am saying is that:

1. Development of GNU Classpath seems to be stalled now (quoting from
an earlier post from Andrew Haley: "I have to tell you that Classpath
is not being actively developed, so your problem is unlikely to be
fixed.")

2. This is due to the lack of manpower, which in turn is probably due
to the lack of interested developers, but also to the fact that most
of the development effort of the current team is going to OpenJDK
instead.

3. Given the above, perhaps the current maintainers should consider
switching priorities and start actively looking for a "competent
successor" (as in lesson #5 of ESR's "The Cathedral and the Bazaar").

Best,

[Andrew Haley]

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
1. Development of GNU Classpath seems to be stalled now (quoting from
an earlier post from Andrew Haley: "I have to tell you that Classpath
is not being actively developed, so your problem is unlikely to be
fixed.")
2. This is due to the lack of manpower, which in turn is probably due
to the lack of interested developers, but also to the fact that most
of the development effort of the current team is going to OpenJDK
instead.
3. Given the above, perhaps the current maintainers should consider
switching priorities and start actively looking for a "competent
successor" (as in lesson #5 of ESR's "The Cathedral and the Bazaar").

Your opinion has been noted. Now, what do *you* intend to do to help?

Andrew.

[Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia]

Hi Andrew,

Post by Andrew Haley

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
1. Development of GNU Classpath seems to be stalled now (quoting from
an earlier post from Andrew Haley: "I have to tell you that Classpath
is not being actively developed, so your problem is unlikely to be
fixed.")
2. This is due to the lack of manpower, which in turn is probably due
to the lack of interested developers, but also to the fact that most
of the development effort of the current team is going to OpenJDK
instead.
3. Given the above, perhaps the current maintainers should consider
switching priorities and start actively looking for a "competent
successor" (as in lesson #5 of ESR's "The Cathedral and the Bazaar").

Your opinion has been noted. Now, what do *you* intend to do to help?

I am willing to help where possible. Sending patches or bugfixes is OK
(and I will do so if I come across any problems), but in my opinion
this does not address the real problem. For example *I* cannot update
the GNU Classpath page to list 0.99, and not 0.98, as the current
version.

What would you like me to do? How can I help ?

[Andrew Haley]

Hi,

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
Hi Andrew,

Post by Andrew Haley

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
1. Development of GNU Classpath seems to be stalled now (quoting from
an earlier post from Andrew Haley: "I have to tell you that Classpath
is not being actively developed, so your problem is unlikely to be
fixed.")
2. This is due to the lack of manpower, which in turn is probably due
to the lack of interested developers, but also to the fact that most
of the development effort of the current team is going to OpenJDK
instead.
3. Given the above, perhaps the current maintainers should consider
switching priorities and start actively looking for a "competent
successor" (as in lesson #5 of ESR's "The Cathedral and the Bazaar").

Your opinion has been noted. Now, what do *you* intend to do to help?

I am willing to help where possible. Sending patches or bugfixes is OK
(and I will do so if I come across any problems), but in my opinion
this does not address the real problem. For example *I* cannot update
the GNU Classpath page to list 0.99, and not 0.98, as the current
version.

Almost all of GNU Classpath is under source control, and patches are
welcome. A new version of the web page is welcome. Having said that,
I don't have access to the web page, but I think we can get it.

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
What would you like me to do? How can I help ?

I think I'd like people to fix problems when they find them. "Update
Classpath to Java 1.6." isn't a reasonable interim goal.

Andrew.

[Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia]

Post by Andrew Haley
Hi,

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
Hi Andrew,

Post by Andrew Haley

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
1. Development of GNU Classpath seems to be stalled now (quoting from
an earlier post from Andrew Haley: "I have to tell you that Classpath
is not being actively developed, so your problem is unlikely to be
fixed.")
2. This is due to the lack of manpower, which in turn is probably due
to the lack of interested developers, but also to the fact that most
of the development effort of the current team is going to OpenJDK
instead.
3. Given the above, perhaps the current maintainers should consider
switching priorities and start actively looking for a "competent
successor" (as in lesson #5 of ESR's "The Cathedral and the Bazaar").

Your opinion has been noted. Now, what do *you* intend to do to help?

I am willing to help where possible. Sending patches or bugfixes is OK
(and I will do so if I come across any problems), but in my opinion
this does not address the real problem. For example *I* cannot update
the GNU Classpath page to list 0.99, and not 0.98, as the current
version.

Almost all of GNU Classpath is under source control, and patches are
welcome. A new version of the web page is welcome. Having said that,
I don't have access to the web page, but I think we can get it.

I think updating the web page is badly needed. At least 0.99 should be
listed, and perhaps it would be good to add a pointer to the Git
repository -- I don't think CVS is very popular these days. Is the web
page itself under source control? How can I contribute patches or
updates to that?

Post by Andrew Haley

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
What would you like me to do? How can I help ?

I think I'd like people to fix problems when they find them.

Sure!

Post by Andrew Haley
"Update Classpath to Java 1.6." isn't a reasonable interim goal.

Now that OpenJDK is available, Classpath cannot just aim to be
"another OpenJDK". I think Classpath is a good match for embedded
systems. And in that environment, compatibility with the latest Java
versions is less important IMHO.

[Mark Wielaard]

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
Is the web
page itself under source control? How can I contribute patches or
updates to that?

All the docs and the web pages are under source control. The webpages
are checked into their own repository, but are generated from the main
sources. http://web.cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/?root=classpath

See the README under the doc/www.gnu.org directory in the source repo:
http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/classpath.git/tree/doc/www.gnu.org/README

[Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia]

Post by Mark Wielaard

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
Is the web
page itself under source control? How can I contribute patches or
updates to that?

All the docs and the web pages are under source control. The webpages
are checked into their own repository, but are generated from the main
sources. http://web.cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/?root=classpath
http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/classpath.git/tree/doc/www.gnu.org/README

Thank you, I will have a look at this.

[Per Bothner]

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
What would you like me to do? How can I help ?

More useful than updating Classoath per se would be creating
a version of GCJ that uses OpenJDK's javac for compiling to bytecodes,
and OpenJDK classes (or at least mostly so). This is a big project,
but has a chance of being useful and maintained.

There may be licensing issues that should be considered before
charging full steam ahead.

I'm out of the loop, so I don't know if anything like that is happening.
I'd start with switching to using javac. When I'd add/replace whatever
non-core classes that don't wouldn't conflict with GCJ/Classpath core classes.
Maybe this wold be a fork or branch of Classpath, or maybe the mainline - depends
on the changes.

In general, the sanest way to update classpath is to merge in OpenJDK code.
(Again, assuming licensing and other policy issues have been evaluated.)
However, the OpenJDK classes may depend on recent Java language features.
Which is why projects using Classpath should switch to using OpenJDK's javac.
(I don't believe Eclipse's compiler is as solid or complete, though that may be
my bias from having worked with javac engineers. It's probably good enough for
at least the initial stages of merging in OpenJDK classes.)

[Mark Wielaard]

Post by Per Bothner

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
What would you like me to do? How can I help ?

More useful than updating Classoath per se would be creating
a version of GCJ that uses OpenJDK's javac for compiling to bytecodes,
and OpenJDK classes (or at least mostly so). This is a big project,
but has a chance of being useful and maintained.
There may be licensing issues that should be considered before
charging full steam ahead.
I'm out of the loop, so I don't know if anything like that is happening.

This is happening (or has already). The code has been written by one of
the GCC GSoC students (now at Oracle) Dalibor Topic:
"Integrating OpenJDK's javac bytecode compiler into gcj "
https://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code-2007-gcc/downloads/detail?name=Dalibor_Topic.tar.gz&can=2&q=
Someone integrating that into mainline would be welcome I think.

Cheers,

Mark

[Christopher Friedt]

On Sep 3, 2014 12:13 PM, "Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia" <

Post by Mario Torre
If someone wants to take the project, the best thing to do is to start
contributing patches. After all, how can the maintainer know if someone
is seriously willing to take his role if there lack of a serious and
recent contribution flow?

I've been eavesdropping on this bread a bit. Personally, I don't really
care who is maintaining classpath, but I still use it regularly for
embedded Java on several architectures.

There are even a few patches I've been using for years that I would like to
get upstream as configurable features. I did submit these to the list, if
I'm not mistaken,but never received any feedback. In particular,

1) a patch to allow mmaping special files (e.g. /dev/video0) via
MappedByteBuffer FileChannel.map()
2) a patch that implements direct ByteBuffers (i.e. reducing the JNI
overhead per-transaction) that extends the ability to CharBuffers,
ShortBuffers, LongBuffers, etc.

If I am not able to get these patches upstream (even with some reworking),
I'm effectively maintaining a fork, which I would rather not do.

A gift repository would, of course, be a welcome improvement :-)

C

[Andïï]

Post by Christopher Friedt
On Sep 3, 2014 12:13 PM, "Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia" <

Post by Christopher Friedt

Post by Mario Torre
If someone wants to take the project, the best thing to do is to start
contributing patches. After all, how can the maintainer know if someone
is seriously willing to take his role if there lack of a serious and
recent contribution flow?

I've been eavesdropping on this bread a bit. Personally, I don't really

care who is maintaining classpath, but I still use it regularly for
embedded Java on several architectures.

I'll assume that's meant to be 'thread' ;) Eavesdropping on baked goods
doesn't sound as promising.

Post by Christopher Friedt
There are even a few patches I've been using for years that I would like
to get upstream as configurable features. I did submit these to the list,
if I'm not mistaken,but never received any feedback. In particular,
1) a patch to allow mmaping special files (e.g. /dev/video0) via
MappedByteBuffer FileChannel.map()
2) a patch that implements direct ByteBuffers (i.e. reducing the JNI
overhead per-transaction) that extends the ability to CharBuffers,
ShortBuffers, LongBuffers, etc.
If I am not able to get these patches upstream (even with some reworking),
I'm effectively maintaining a fork, which I would rather not do.

I've not seen either of these. Please resubmit them and we can look at
getting them in.

Post by Christopher Friedt
A gift repository would, of course, be a welcome improvement :-)
C

We have one: http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/classpath.git/log/

[Andïï]

On 3 September 2014 17:12, Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
Hi Mario,
[...]

Post by Mario Torre

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
Yes I am sure about this, but that is not my point. What I am saying
is that it would be very good for the project to be maintained by a
team who really wants to move things forward.

I understand what you mean, but the current maintainer has always
integrated patches and done releases, I think the problem is not the
lack of one maintainer willing to move forward, is lack of manpower to
do it.

Well,part of the job of the maintainer for an OSS project, perhaps the
most important one, is to attract and motivate other developers. This
is how the 'lack of manpower' problem is solved.
Just as an example: 0.99 is now over 2 years old, yet the official
Classpath site still lists 0.98 (2009) as "current". 0.99 is not even
listed in the downloads page. If the first thing a developer sees is
that the latest release is more than 5 years old, that does not
exactly help. I already mentioned this in this list, by the way

I'm aware of this and I see your point. The issue is that the web pages
rely on a tool called wml that seems to be no longer maintained and
I've simply not had chance to look at fixing it up myself or doing away
with it.

If you want to do so, feel free. I can point you in the right direction.

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
Also I am not the first one to raise these concerns. Pekka Enberg
wrote an excellent post about "the future of GNU Classpath" in Dec
2010, and the situation has not changed a lot since then. I cannot
find the original post anymore (the blog was hosted at posterous
spaces, which is no longer available), but the thread in the ML
remains (http://www.spinics.net/lists/gnu-classpath/msg03027.html).
But you already know this of course, since you took part in that
conversation.

Post by Mario Torre
As I said, anyone can step in, if patches start to flow (including bug
fixes) I'm sure they'll be integrated correctly and quickly.
If someone wants to take the project, the best thing to do is to start
contributing patches. After all, how can the maintainer know if someone
is seriously willing to take his role if there lack of a serious and
recent contribution flow?

Of course if someone wanted to take on the project, then that would be
the process. I completely agree with you.

There have been three changes made this year already:

http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/classpath.git/log/

They were included pretty much as soon as they were posted.

I also have some stuff I'm working on, but it has to take second place
to maintaining three (soon four) major versions of OpenJDK/IcedTea.

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
1. Development of GNU Classpath seems to be stalled now (quoting from
an earlier post from Andrew Haley: "I have to tell you that Classpath
is not being actively developed, so your problem is unlikely to be
fixed.")

Sorry, but that's simply nonsense, as can be seen by what I've said above.
It's slow, because there aren't many people with the time and interest, but
it's certainly not 'stalled'.

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
2. This is due to the lack of manpower, which in turn is probably due
to the lack of interested developers, but also to the fact that most
of the development effort of the current team is going to OpenJDK
instead.
3. Given the above, perhaps the current maintainers should consider
switching priorities and start actively looking for a "competent
successor" (as in lesson #5 of ESR's "The Cathedral and the Bazaar").

Maybe rather than complaining and telling us what we already know, you
could help by providing patches?

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but this is really quite unhelpful to someone
who's trying to do what they can for the project with the limited resources
available.

Pekka did so and, as far as I'm aware, they've all been integrated into the
codebase.

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
Best,
--
Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia

[Guillermo Rodriguez]

Post by Andïï
On 3 September 2014 17:12, Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
Hi Mario,
[...]

Post by Mario Torre

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
Yes I am sure about this, but that is not my point. What I am saying
is that it would be very good for the project to be maintained by a
team who really wants to move things forward.

I understand what you mean, but the current maintainer has always
integrated patches and done releases, I think the problem is not the
lack of one maintainer willing to move forward, is lack of manpower to
do it.

Well,part of the job of the maintainer for an OSS project, perhaps the
most important one, is to attract and motivate other developers. This
is how the 'lack of manpower' problem is solved.
Just as an example: 0.99 is now over 2 years old, yet the official
Classpath site still lists 0.98 (2009) as "current". 0.99 is not even
listed in the downloads page. If the first thing a developer sees is
that the latest release is more than 5 years old, that does not
exactly help. I already mentioned this in this list, by the way

I'm aware of this and I see your point. The issue is that the web pages
rely on a tool called wml that seems to be no longer maintained and
I've simply not had chance to look at fixing it up myself or doing away
with it.
If you want to do so, feel free. I can point you in the right direction.

I was going to send a set of patches against the CVS repository that
Mark Wielaard posted (http://web.cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/classpath/?root=classpath)

I don't really see the point of "fixing" an obsolete tool that is no
longer maintained. Can't we update the HTML pages directly (short term
solution) and then later decide on what to do with WML ?

If patching the HTML files is OK (that's what I understood from Mark's
e-mail) I will do that.

Post by Andïï

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
Also I am not the first one to raise these concerns. Pekka Enberg
wrote an excellent post about "the future of GNU Classpath" in Dec
2010, and the situation has not changed a lot since then. I cannot
find the original post anymore (the blog was hosted at posterous
spaces, which is no longer available), but the thread in the ML
remains (http://www.spinics.net/lists/gnu-classpath/msg03027.html).
But you already know this of course, since you took part in that
conversation.

Post by Mario Torre
As I said, anyone can step in, if patches start to flow (including bug
fixes) I'm sure they'll be integrated correctly and quickly.
If someone wants to take the project, the best thing to do is to start
contributing patches. After all, how can the maintainer know if someone
is seriously willing to take his role if there lack of a serious and
recent contribution flow?

Of course if someone wanted to take on the project, then that would be
the process. I completely agree with you.

http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/classpath.git/log/
They were included pretty much as soon as they were posted.
I also have some stuff I'm working on, but it has to take second place
to maintaining three (soon four) major versions of OpenJDK/IcedTea.

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
1. Development of GNU Classpath seems to be stalled now (quoting from
an earlier post from Andrew Haley: "I have to tell you that Classpath
is not being actively developed, so your problem is unlikely to be
fixed.")

Sorry, but that's simply nonsense,

Sorry, but it wasn't me who said "Classpath is not being actively developed".

Post by Andïï
as can be seen by what I've said above.
It's slow, because there aren't many people with the time and interest, but
it's certainly not 'stalled'.

That's a very subtle difference, if any.

Post by Andïï

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
2. This is due to the lack of manpower, which in turn is probably due
to the lack of interested developers, but also to the fact that most
of the development effort of the current team is going to OpenJDK
instead.
3. Given the above, perhaps the current maintainers should consider
switching priorities and start actively looking for a "competent
successor" (as in lesson #5 of ESR's "The Cathedral and the Bazaar").

Maybe rather than complaining and telling us what we already know, you
could help by providing patches?

I think that asking to "help rather than complain" is a bit unfair.

First of all I am not "complaining", I am trying to suggest that perhaps,
if time and resources are limited, the best way to spend them would be to
look for a successor.

Second, I am willing to help in any way I can, and already stated that.
Yes I can submit patches (and will do) although in my opinion this does
not address the underlying problem. I think that updating the website
(to help raise awareness and attract developers) would be much more
useful than sending patches to fix bugs or issues.

Post by Andïï
I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but this is really quite unhelpful to someone
who's trying to do what they can for the project with the limited resources
available.

It is not my intent to be unhelpful, rather on the contrary. Anyway I am
sorry if it came across that way.

Guillermo

[Pekka Enberg]

On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 7:17 PM, Guillermo Rodriguez

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez
I think that asking to "help rather than complain" is a bit unfair.

No, it's really not unfair at all. You are basically saying Andrew is
doing a crappy job as a maintainer when in reality he's pretty much
the only one developing GNU Classpath these days...

On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 7:17 PM, Guillermo Rodriguez

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez
First of all I am not "complaining", I am trying to suggest that perhaps,
if time and resources are limited, the best way to spend them would be to
look for a successor.

Thanks for the suggestion. We're going to just ignore it because it
makes no sense. Once you answer the hypothetical question *who* should
be the successor, you will understand why.

On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 7:17 PM, Guillermo Rodriguez

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez
Second, I am willing to help in any way I can, and already stated that.
Yes I can submit patches (and will do) although in my opinion this does
not address the underlying problem. I think that updating the website
(to help raise awareness and attract developers) would be much more
useful than sending patches to fix bugs or issues.

I also think the website needs fixing. Are sources to it available
somewhere and who is able to update it if someone actually sends a
patch against it?

- Pekka

[Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia]

Hello Pekka,

Post by Pekka Enberg
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 7:17 PM, Guillermo Rodriguez

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez
I think that asking to "help rather than complain" is a bit unfair.

No, it's really not unfair at all. You are basically saying Andrew is
doing a crappy job as a maintainer

No, I am definitely NOT saying that, nothing even close. Please don't put
your words in my mouth, thank you.

Post by Pekka Enberg
in reality he's pretty much
the only one developing GNU Classpath these days...
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 7:17 PM, Guillermo Rodriguez

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez
First of all I am not "complaining", I am trying to suggest that perhaps,
if time and resources are limited, the best way to spend them would be to
look for a successor.

Thanks for the suggestion. We're going to just ignore it because it
makes no sense.

Ok :)

Once you answer the hypothetical question *who* should

Post by Pekka Enberg
be the successor, you will understand why.

I see, so if I don't have the answer, the question makes no sense. Ok.

Post by Pekka Enberg
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 7:17 PM, Guillermo Rodriguez

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez
Second, I am willing to help in any way I can, and already stated that.
Yes I can submit patches (and will do) although in my opinion this does
not address the underlying problem. I think that updating the website
(to help raise awareness and attract developers) would be much more
useful than sending patches to fix bugs or issues.

I also think the website needs fixing. Are sources to it available
somewhere and who is able to update it if someone actually sends a
patch against it?

That's what I asked as well.

Guillermo

[Pekka Enberg]

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia

Post by Pekka Enberg
No, it's really not unfair at all. You are basically saying Andrew is
doing a crappy job as a maintainer

On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:29 PM, Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
No, I am definitely NOT saying that, nothing even close. Please don't put
your words in my mouth, thank you.

Of course you are saying that. Why else would you even bring up the
issue of finding a "competent successor" which implies that Andrew is
no longer interested in GNU Classpath and neglecting its maintenance?

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia

Post by Pekka Enberg
Once you answer the hypothetical question *who* should
be the successor, you will understand why.

On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:29 PM, Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
I see, so if I don't have the answer, the question makes no sense. Ok.

You didn't even try to answer the question, did you?

If Andrew actually needed a "competent successor" (he doesn't), what
is required of that person? The person needs to be an active
developer, needs to understand GNU Classpath well, and has to have
support from people who actually developed the project, right?

Are you able to make an educated guess who actually meets that criteria?

- Pekka

[Andrew Haley]

Post by Pekka Enberg

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia

Post by Pekka Enberg
No, it's really not unfair at all. You are basically saying Andrew is
doing a crappy job as a maintainer

On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:29 PM, Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
No, I am definitely NOT saying that, nothing even close. Please don't put
your words in my mouth, thank you.

Of course you are saying that. Why else would you even bring up the
issue of finding a "competent successor" which implies that Andrew is
no longer interested in GNU Classpath and neglecting its maintenance?

Whoa Pekka, be nice. Let's just assume that Guillermo is sincere, and
he wants to help.

The problem isn't competence. All of us are competent. It's a lack of
time. All of us, I believe, have day jobs, and none of them are in GNU
Classpath development.

Post by Pekka Enberg

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia

Post by Pekka Enberg
Once you answer the hypothetical question *who* should
be the successor, you will understand why.

On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:29 PM, Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
I see, so if I don't have the answer, the question makes no sense. Ok.

You didn't even try to answer the question, did you?
If Andrew actually needed a "competent successor" (he doesn't), what
is required of that person? The person needs to be an active
developer, needs to understand GNU Classpath well, and has to have
support from people who actually developed the project, right?
Are you able to make an educated guess who actually meets that criteria?

Guillermo, please. You phrased your point badly, in a way that was likely
to annoy people. I believe that you didn't want to do that.

Everyone: let's have a proper discussion. Is there something we can
do with GNU Classpath that takes it further forward. And, if so,
what? What would our goals be?

Andrew.

[Pekka Enberg]

Post by Andrew Haley
Everyone: let's have a proper discussion. Is there something we can
do with GNU Classpath that takes it further forward. And, if so,
what? What would our goals be?

I think Guillermo is right that we need to update the GNU Classpath
web site. Right now, it gives the impression that the project is
abandoned...

- Pekka

[Christopher Friedt]

Post by Pekka Enberg
I think Guillermo is right that we need to update the GNU Classpath
web site. Right now, it gives the impression that the project is
abandoned...

Pardon me bring frank, but I feel like the fact that classpath still uses
CVS gives the impression that the project is abandoned!

... seriously, I could probably volunteer to migrate it to git. CVS might
very well be obstacle #1 that deters young programmers from participating.
I think both Pekka & myself have publicly available gits available for
classpath, and I appreciate that there is a significant amount of revision
history to deal with.

C

[Mark Wielaard]

Post by Christopher Friedt
... seriously, I could probably volunteer to migrate it to git. CVS might
very well be obstacle #1 that deters young programmers from participating.
I think both Pekka & myself have publicly available gits available for
classpath, and I appreciate that there is a significant amount of revision
history to deal with.

Only the website html files are under CVS. Everything else (including
the files that are used to generate the website html files) are under
git already: http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/classpath.git

Cheers,

Mark

[Christopher Friedt]

Post by Mark Wielaard

Post by Christopher Friedt
... seriously, I could probably volunteer to migrate it to git. CVS might

Only the website html files are under CVS. Everything else (including
the files that are used to generate the website html files) are under
git already:http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/classpath.git

So it is. My mistake.

In any case, here is a post documenting the patches.

http://goo.gl/5qCLI6

The last patch in the series has a custom JNI function. I know adding
custom JNI is bad, so I'm hoping that someone from the community could
suggest a less disruptive method of achieving the same results.

Thanks in advance.

Incidentally, I believe I first posted this around FOSDEM 2012.

[Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia]

Post by Andrew Haley

Post by Pekka Enberg

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia

Post by Pekka Enberg
No, it's really not unfair at all. You are basically saying Andrew is
doing a crappy job as a maintainer

On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:29 PM, Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
No, I am definitely NOT saying that, nothing even close. Please don't

put

Post by Pekka Enberg

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
your words in my mouth, thank you.

Of course you are saying that. Why else would you even bring up the
issue of finding a "competent successor" which implies that Andrew is
no longer interested in GNU Classpath and neglecting its maintenance?

Whoa Pekka, be nice. Let's just assume that Guillermo is sincere, and
he wants to help.

Thank you Andrew. Yes I am sincere and want to help.

Post by Andrew Haley
The problem isn't competence. All of us are competent. It's a lack of
time.

Yes. Never wanted to suggest the opposite.

Post by Andrew Haley
All of us, I believe, have day jobs, and none of them are in GNU
Classpath development.

Post by Pekka Enberg

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia

Post by Pekka Enberg
Once you answer the hypothetical question *who* should
be the successor, you will understand why.

On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:29 PM, Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
I see, so if I don't have the answer, the question makes no sense. Ok.

You didn't even try to answer the question, did you?
If Andrew actually needed a "competent successor" (he doesn't), what
is required of that person? The person needs to be an active
developer, needs to understand GNU Classpath well, and has to have
support from people who actually developed the project, right?
Are you able to make an educated guess who actually meets that criteria?

Guillermo, please. You phrased your point badly, in a way that was likely
to annoy people. I believe that you didn't want to do that.

Sorry for that. I apologize if my words annoyed anyone. It was not my
intention.

Guillermo

Post by Andrew Haley
Everyone: let's have a proper discussion. Is there something we can
do with GNU Classpath that takes it further forward. And, if so,
what? What would our goals be?
Andrew.

[Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia]

Post by Pekka Enberg

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia

Post by Pekka Enberg
No, it's really not unfair at all. You are basically saying Andrew is
doing a crappy job as a maintainer

On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:29 PM, Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
No, I am definitely NOT saying that, nothing even close. Please don't put
your words in my mouth, thank you.

Of course you are saying that.

No, I am not.

Post by Pekka Enberg
Why else would you even bring up the
issue of finding a "competent successor" which implies that Andrew is
no longer interested in GNU Classpath and neglecting its maintenance?

Wrong. I said that if the current maintainers don't have time or resources,
perhaps they could look for a competent successor. One that they trust.
That does not imply that the current maintainers are not competent. That
might have been your interpretation, but it is not what I think and it is
not what I said.

(By the way, when I said "competent successor" I was just quoting Eric S
Raymond, literally. I even linked to the source.)

Post by Pekka Enberg

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia

Post by Pekka Enberg
Once you answer the hypothetical question *who* should
be the successor, you will understand why.

On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:29 PM, Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez Garcia
I see, so if I don't have the answer, the question makes no sense. Ok.

You didn't even try to answer the question, did you?

No. I don't have the answer, and I don't think that having an answer is a
prerequisite for a question to be valid.

Post by Pekka Enberg
If Andrew actually needed a "competent successor" (he doesn't),

If he doesn't, then all the better. I am not trying to annoy anyone, just
trying to help.

At least this ignited a discussion. That's already something.

Guillermo

[Mark Wielaard]

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez

Post by Andïï
I'm aware of this and I see your point. The issue is that the web pages
rely on a tool called wml that seems to be no longer maintained and
I've simply not had chance to look at fixing it up myself or doing away
with it.
If you want to do so, feel free. I can point you in the right direction.

I was going to send a set of patches against the CVS repository that
Mark Wielaard posted (http://web.cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/classpath/?root=classpath)
I don't really see the point of "fixing" an obsolete tool that is no
longer maintained. Can't we update the HTML pages directly (short term
solution) and then later decide on what to do with WML ?
If patching the HTML files is OK (that's what I understood from Mark's
e-mail) I will do that.

I admit that I don't really like doing that. But when I looked for my
working copy of WML I noticed it doesn't actually work anymore on my
latest distro :{ And when looking for the latest version at
http://thewml.org/ the Distrib location is broken, so I don't actually
know where to get a source copy right now.

So we should probably move away from WML and find some other framework
to do the website it.

Given that we don't yet have that other framework it might be good to
just make the changes to the HTML files in the web repo directly. If you
do sent a patch for that please also sent a patch explaining the current
situation for the main git repo doc/www.gnu.org/README. So others know
to not try to update the website using the old WML framework. And please
note that the publishing rule in doc/www.gnu.org/Makefile relies on the
other docs one level up to publish the guides under
https://www.gnu.org/software/classpath/docs/docs.html

Also, as a side note, I just noticed the webpages look bad under https,
they look fine under http though.

Thanks,

Mark

[Mario Torre]

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez
Yes I can submit patches

Just start doing that, everything else will follow like the water in a
river in a rainy winter. We won't build dams.

Cheers,
Mario

[Mario Torre]

Post by Guillermo Rodriguez
I think that updating the website

P.S. That counts as a patch as well ;)

Cheers,
Mario